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 On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.

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Makkine
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PostSubject: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:55 pm

Okay, ya'll. This is a serious topic and I want all of you to shut up and listen. I am NOT in a good mood right now. So of course I'm gonna rant about it. And I'm sorry if I ever seem rude, but this has gone on for too long and it's been enough.

So, everywhere you go on this forum there is this huge split between the veterans and the new people, the so-called "noobs". Here are the two/three points of view on the topic and my own, with solutions for all:

New people:
 
Veterans:
 
My own position:
 
Mini-rant on "opinions":
 

That's all. Please read the whole thing before posting, we don't want unintelligent replies. Also, for goodness's sake, remain civil or you'll be either promptly ignored or personally insulted. It's no so hard to be nice, ya'll.
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:06 pm

Poland in response to this i thought it was extremely well.However,some points i did disagree with..........


Opinions-If it is valid and you think its important and has facts leading up its fine.
Noob- Typically noobs feel uncomfortable starting on an unfamiliar site and they do not like it for a while.


That is it




Signed,
Jackie Longbottom
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Makkine
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:11 pm

@HPF: I don't mean opinions that are properly supported and intelligently used, but just saying something blatantly rude/not-thought-out and saying it's all right just because it's "their opinion" is not good. At all.

Also, most people here that are new are extremely enthusiastic. Also, if they are uncomfortable here, that's just another reason for them to think before posting.
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:12 pm

Agreed, I've been putting down the new kiddies since I've been in such bad moods, and as you know I -ahem- am not afraid of giving my full honest opinion instead of those, "Its awesome!" To every thing you do. That personally annoys me, we aren't stupid people that can't take, "That needs some work and improvement," those are the comments that make you better at what you do, not the over positive ones. Also there isn't a reason to go scan every single little post for grammar mistakes, the new kids obviously don't type nearly as well, and going, "Tht wuz a run on," to every post where they don't use period marks, doesn't make you look smart. Just leave the grammar patrol to stories where grammar is actually something needed. Another thing is to learn to keep your mouth shut, I noticed some people are trying to be more (aggressive?) on topics with critiquing. I'll honestly say it, I think there are very few people that are actually capable of this aggressiveness that I and the older users show. If you don't completely understand, just keep your negative thoughts to yourself. For the new users, you've noticed us old users ranting about Mace? Yeah, we do that, and your much too young to understand, so don't try to understand? The forums aren't the real world, so not everything has a meaning that you must learn. Don't barge into the chat, and when no one says "Hello." don't freak out. Also like Poland mentioned, that "In my opinion," excuse is really getting annoying, find some reasons to back it up and debate it like mature folks instead of masking it with a thin layer of paint.

~I'mma stop here before I post something ridiculously long and has lost all meaning.~
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Makkine
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:27 pm

Ah, I mostly agree with your post. Would you mind if I dissect it?

Quote :
and as you know I -ahem- am not afraid of giving my full honest opinion instead of those, "Its awesome!" To every thing you do. That personally annoys me, we aren't stupid people that can't take, "That needs some work and improvement," those are the comments that make you better at what you do, not the over positive ones.
Giving your full and honest critique is not being mean or putting them down, especially if it isn't any good. However, there are ways of critiquing and such that don't sound as confrontational or aggressive as "your art sucks" or "this is no good", which I have seen and which are not acceptable.

Quote :
Also there isn't a reason to go scan every single little post for grammar mistakes, the new kids obviously don't type nearly as well, and going, "Tht wuz a run on," to every post where they don't use period marks, doesn't make you look smart. Just leave the grammar patrol to stories where grammar is actually something needed.
I believe you have misunderstood me. I was not saying that we need to nitpick on every little detail. However, if you talk/type correctly, people are more likely to take you seriously and not "bully" you.

As for the rest, I think you covered the most common complaints about noob-dom that people demonstrate and told the people how to change instead of just "NOOB". You see, we need more people like you. xD.
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:28 pm

...The oldiez need to shut their mouth about the noobs.

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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:31 pm

Nono, I wasn't specifically talking about you, I just had very clear memories in mind. I'm talking about how annoying it is when the kids come on here acting like they know grammar like some old english poet and start trying to correct every single little thing, when hardly anything they post has near to acceptable grammar. Indeed the comments like, " YOUR ART SUCKSSS!" are not acceptable at all! But posting "This is the best ever!" on every single thing really isn't acceptable either. It doesn't help you or build you up in any way. It just splatters on a mask of false feelings.
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:35 pm

Italy wrote:
Nono, I wasn't specifically talking about you, I just had very clear memories in mind. I'm talking about how annoying it is when the kids come on here acting like they know grammar like some old english poet and start trying to correct every single little thing, when hardly anything they post has near to acceptable grammar. Indeed the comments like, " YOUR ART SUCKSSS!" are not acceptable at all! But posting "This is the best ever!" on every single thing really isn't acceptable either. It doesn't help you or build you up in any way. It just splatters on a mask of false feelings.
Exactly. For art, you kind of need to be balanced. Either say a few good points, mention something they need help on, or neither. However, "empty" replies like those aren't constructive at all.

So yeah, basically you bring up some very good points.
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:36 pm

Yay~ She approves. 8D
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Nakira
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:42 am

*bursts into applause*
This is the topic I've been waiting for.
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Bloobu
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:28 am

Poland wrote:
Some people here have been mean to you. They've called you names, they've shot down your ideas, they've laughed at you. So you make a thread about it. And what happens once you do? People are not even hiding their rudeness any more. They're shooting you down, they're calling you stupid, they're using unacceptable ideas against you. And in all of your threads, too. They've been parodying you with CAPS LOCK, with inappropriate conversations. How can such a large amount of people be so rude?

I apologise for telling (new) people that their hacker topics are not needed, I didn't mean to make you feel unwelcome or anything, just that there are already a few hacker topics and new ones will not be needed.

The caps lock posts, made by younger people, I'm sure they will learn to eventually, one day, to not use full capitals in their posts when they get angry. However, for the old people to use full caps isn't very "mature". I know you get annoyed and need to express your anger but caps lock make the impression that he/she is not very grown up and he/she needs to learn.

Poland wrote:
Opinions do not validate your point. It could be my "opinion" that we should kill all kitties, but is it still correct? GUYS. Stop using "it's just an opinion, gosh!" as a valid argument. You'd be laughed out of court if you used it. Also, it just proves you're too lazy to formulate a proper argument.

I try to not use "It's just my opinion!" much now, so as I used it quite a bit, I'll apologise for that.

Sorry to all the new people if a few others and I made you feel unwelcome I hope you can start to see the forum in a brighter light in the future Wink
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bladerunner22
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:42 am

Great topic. ll applauds ll Most of this stuff is totally true.

Poland, I think we should kill all of the kitties too. xD
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:12 am

this is a great topic people have been needing a lesson mostly because they say things like "your topic is worthless" and what-not I think of it as online bullying. Thats just me. I agree about the "its just an opinion" deal. Some people just need to get a grip but the people who tlk lik dis,they have been on fantage so much that they have evolved to speaking like that alot of people do that.Anyways this is a great topic!
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:15 am

Its not online bullying,their talking about like quitting topics are worthless and stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:16 am

@MJ Fan you need to stop being rude I have seen rude comments on some topics by you so please shut your mouth for a while
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Mustard
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:29 am

Here we all go again.
Look, I honestly, could care less.
Just ignore them! It won't kill you.
In all this topic, I guess that I could say I've been here most.
I started out as a noob too, but heck, I learned!
Just be nice to them, or don't talk to them at all.
:]
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:31 am

Attaway to summarize Ana~ 8D

And MJ fan, the topics might mean next to nothing to you, but for other people it means a lot, think before you speak. Like Poland or Nymphie said (forgot) just think whether it would bother yourself if someone said it.
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:17 pm

Noobs learn...we all been one haven't we? Awesome topic.. i dont wanna say anything so im just gonna applaude... cheers
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FreedoM 4EVA
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:37 pm

It is a great topic Makkine.

Things that you, Makkine and Italy said were straightly forwarded to ME. I don't mean that you said because of me, its just that I feel it was meant to me.

Getting back to topic.
Noobs- Everyone here once upon a time was a noob=newb. Many people over here are very mean to the newbs. Its just because that they are posting their Fantage topics. Guess what? They came for a Fantage Forum. Hackers topic (other Fantage topic) is getting annoying. You found a hacker"on the loose"? No one here wants to know about them. Or that's what I came from a conclusion of all the comments. Old"ies" laughing at you, making you feel hurted? Ignore them completely.

Veterans- You are acting all grown up on kiddish topics. Stop it, because in reality you are just beginning your teenage life or even younger that. So act like your age.

Opinions- Everyone has an opinion. Everyone is entitled to one. So post it if you are ready for a debate back. I used many of "Its just my opinion" sentence, and I will try all my best to stop it from Now On.

Long story short- Everyone is a person, treat them like how you would love to be treated. Be you young, teenage, old or a grand person, you are a human being after all. You were once upon a time young, got the same abustion (maybe) so don't let the other youngsters live what you lived.

Ok, speaking about myself, I won't pin point every single thing and say I won't do this, I'll try. But say for all the things that I felt was me "I'll stop it and try to be a new person. Change is not easy."

-whew I'm dead-
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:46 pm

I like how you said they can hide their rudeness with opinion anymore because somebody said I was being a noob and now the newbie the mean kind Smile
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:13 pm

I see we all have some discussion going on here.

@Ari: Ignoring the problem doesn't help it go away at all. If you want change, if the world sucks, step up and change it for yourself.

@Byakku: It was HPF, and she's correct. We can share properly supported opinions and all, just remain civil.

@Alex: You are not being victimized, all right? Yes, people have been mean to you, and yes, that's not all right, but perhaps you just need to stop being so sensitive.
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:50 pm

the point is?

some people are noobs longer than others
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:55 pm

the point is that i don't like noobs because i have a short temper and can't take meaningless questions..

my rule is that some noobs are noobs longer than others, i'm not mean to EVERY new person. it's just easy to irritate me and noobs can tell right off the bat if i don't like them...

i'm not going to be nice to someone who obviously can tell they're annoying me and don't care.
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:11 pm

@poland well, excuse me for being an 11 year old girl >:O
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PostSubject: Re: On noobs, veterans, and forum etiquette.    Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:56 pm

Alex don't use that excuse, for I'm only 11 also. o.e.
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